Would Formula SAE cars be too fast for most kart tracks?

"Wheelerguy" (wheelerguy)
01/30/2020 at 06:20 • Filed to: Formula SAE, formula student, Musings, karting

Or are they alright? And what sort of design challenges would come out if one was to turn these into high-power fan cars like the Brabham BT46b?

DISCUSSION (8)

jimz > Wheelerguy
01/30/2020 at 07:09

yes, they’re too much for your typical karting track. I was on my uni’s FSAE team about 20 years ago.

And what sort of design challenges would come out if one was to turn these into high-power fan cars like the Brabham BT46b?

1) where to put the fan

2) how to drive it- most of these use transverse powerpacks out of motorcycles. we used a Honda CBR600 F3.

3) why the hell would you want to do this on a car which doesn’t need that much downforce, especially within the budget defined by the rules.

you’ve got to understand something. Formula SAE is a student project for a reason. It isn’t meant to be about “designing a fast race car.” It’s meant to be about “managing a large engineering project.” Teams are given a set of design constraints and a budget. Before you race your car is gone over by cost estimators and you’re penalized if the estimates put you over that budget.

Also, for a lot of kids it becomes a harsh lesson in “over-engineering.” For example, back then the rules didn’t specify any particular fuel induction method, you could use carbs or FI. It was fairly common to see a team have their scratchbuilt intake, fuel injection, and PCM system fail out on the race course while the teams which just used the stock carb(s) finished the race because they spent their effort (and money) elsewhere. I think a lot of budding engineers would do well to participate in this project to get it through their heads that “more complicated” is not “better engineering.”

promoted by the color red > jimz
01/30/2020 at 10:31

Y ou mean having to cut & re- weld a structural member every time you need to remove the engine is not a sustainable model?

jimz > promoted by the color red
01/30/2020 at 10:32

I’m surprised Audi or BMW hasn’t done that yet.

INTL_Fudge > Wheelerguy
01/30/2020 at 12:01

Definitely too fast and big, especially when the air restrictor is removed from the intake. With that being said, most teams geared their cars to top out between 60-80mph, and the max cornering Gs for an advanced aero car was “reported” to be in the 2G range. I think it would be less about the speed and more about trying to maneuver a much larger vehicle at speed through a small track.

And I agree with JimZ and don't think I could say it any better. This competition isn't about building the fastest cars (unless you are one of the top 20 teams in the world). It's about learning how to properly run an engineering project.

Grindintosecond > Wheelerguy
01/30/2020 at 12:14

You must buy Matt Brown's book. It's all about the challenges of managing the FSAE team and being an engineering student in all of that. It's very well written, like all of his posts here. It's worth the money.

just-a-scratch > Wheelerguy
01/30/2020 at 13:27

When I was doing it, engines had to be under 610cc displacement and all the intake air went through a restrictor, 20mm circular iirc. That meant there wasn’t a ton of power. Well tuned NA cars were 60-70hp and turbo cars were said to be a bit over 80 hp.

The car we had in 2001 was said to have done 130 mph on a back road somewhere between school and Detroit, but I can’t verify that. Proper gearing might really limit them to something around 100 mph. That’s still damn fast on a lot of karting facilities.

They’re small, but still much bigger than karts. I’ve seen some kart tracks that these FSAE cars might not be able to navigate. The corners on kart tracks, at least the rental/open to the public spots can be tiny.

Sure, they’d be a blast on some kart tracks, but generally the’re suited to autcross. That’s what the rule book is built around.

Wheelerguy > Grindintosecond
11/07/2020 at 07:40

Before it all ends here: what’s the title of the book?

Grindintosecond > Wheelerguy
11/07/2020 at 11:56

https://www.amazon.com/Racecar-Searching-Limit-Formula-SAE-ebook/dp/B00637KNZG